Liverpool Fc @ Anfield - Reds Supporters Gatherings

[sex crusader]

Actually the 'Real Fans" got too much clues that their brain got glued . RB & Lucas got too much clues that they were able to glue some '0ver-clue" fans!

[hawksbay]

Originally Posted by sex crusader

Actually the 'Real Fans" got too much clues that their brain got glued . RB & Lucas got too much clues that they were able to glue some '0ver-clue" fans!

[bochapsing]

Originally Posted by shyboy252001

Let's turn the clock back and look at earlier part of the seasons.. Early this season, after Alonso left us, we were looking for CM to replace and that certain Barry went back against his words on wanting to play for Champ League club.. RB went for Aquilani, not sure right or wrong move, time will tell.. that left us in CM position Gerrard (injured most of the time), Alonso (left), Mascherano (exhausted and mentally not stable due to Barcelona courtship..), Aquilani (injured), Lucas (average Joe), Plessis (errr...), and this small short guy from Academy.. so... lets see.. if we play 4-4-2.. who u pick to partner Mascherano?? i'd say Lucas was more like a no-choice option for RB.. and now nearer to the end of Season, u saw Lucas benched more often..

STILL PROUD TO BE REDS!!

rafa has never said lucas is our 1st choice CM... as bro shyboy said, he was playing most of the game becos we had no other CM to choose from...
Plessis did well in few matches 1 or 2 season ago, but faded away badly, got report saying tat his attitude wasn't the best...
spearing vs lucas? i'll still go for lucas thou spearing is a homegrown young player...
err... putting gerrard in CM and play benayoun in AM? both of them were having their own problem with their form n injuries...
on the topic of why did rafa buy an injured player... i strongly believe tat rafa was given little $$, and instead of buying a 5-10 mil "average player" (then people will again critised him for buying squad player), he took a gamble in aquilani whose payment i believe comes in instalments with little downpayment.. (nobody in the right mind will pay a full lump sum fee for an injured player... not even rick parry!!) and even rafa said before, if aqualani is fully fit, he'll cost more (he's very highly rated in italy), and we'll never able to afford him...

i guess we din have many choice...

as bro shyboy mentioned too, when evrybody is fit lately, we see lucas on the bench for some of the game...

when rafa stick to lucas, people say he favour lucas... when rafa din play babel, people say he dun give him chance...
when rafa drop a player after a good performance, people say he no good in man management lar, destroy the player's confidence lar... but when rafa praise lucas after he put in a good performance, people say he is rafa's pet...

i guess none of the managers for top teams will read paper or internet... else they sure go mad..!!!

[omnia]

negative posts do not necessarily = fair weathered fans...if the shoe fits...the truth can sometimes be painful but better to see things for what they really r than continue living wif blinkers and relying on blind faith...true loyal fans sld be entitled to criticise the club they support provided it is done in good faith...

Originally Posted by _AXL_

wow... long time never log in here and then see such negative posts. haizz... how fair weather fans can be...

owen's goal scoring record speaks for itself...whereever and whenever he has played and that is a fact...as for the comparison wif torres...to me i think this is apples and oranges...although on the pure class factor i wld hv to say that torres appears to come up trumps...

Originally Posted by _AXL_

people who are still hung up on owen and trying to compare him with fernando torres... fernando torres???!!! that is a no-brainer!!! let's put this clear, fernando torres is not the finished article yet. he still can be a better player. yes, he has a sunday kickabout style but it is effective bcos of his superior physique and ability to get past defenders with his sudden acceleration. owen??? he is too one-dimensional to the point that there will be no point to play wingers if he is in the team. gerrard houllier had to stick heskey up to win headers for owen and thus depriving the midfield of 1 more slot. the liverpool of houllier days had to resort to playing on the break, just to make sure they make use of owen's pace.

u hv always reminded me of the local paul tomkins who appears to be the club's and in particular rafa's biggest apologist...but even tomkins in his book "Golden Past, Red Future: Liverpool FC - Champions of Europe 2005" was able to be objective & rational when it came to owen's transfer to madrid...the fault if any did not lie wif owen but wif the club's management, in particular rick parry for allowing owen's contract to run down to its last season...ironically parry failed to learn fm mcmanaman's bosman transfer to madrid afew yrs earlier...in fact owen sld be given credit for keeping to his word that he wld not pull off a bosman by seeing out his last yr at anfield...tomkins' analogy on this v issue is perhaps apt...it is v easy for fans like u to criticise owen when u do not hv to personally deal wif the consequences...bottom line, football is a job/profession just like any other job/profession...all these rants and raves abt loyalty and being a judas is utter rubbish...each worker/professional is entitled to choose what he thinks is best for him and his family...footballers r no different...moreover owen had already given 8 good yrs of service to the reds...before the 05' season the reds were at a cross roads...owen was not sure where the reds were headed and after he had an interview wif rafa he still appeard to hv his doubts and he was not the only one...gerrard & carra also appeared to hv their doubts...see carra's biography - "Carra:My Autobiography" where carra provides the inside lowdown...in fact gerrard wld hv probably gone to the bridge over that period but for his family's last minute intervention...carra also understood why owen left (same rational reasons as tomkins) and did not feel bitter although he was sad to see owen go both as a top player and a friend...

as for hull & manure...pls lah...it was a no brainer, which professional football player in his rt mind wld turn down the chance of playing at old toilet as opposed to the kc stadium particularly when he is trying to get back into the national team during a WC season?...in any event owen wld hv gone back to anfield at a drop of a hat but it appears that rafa was not interested notwithstanding gerrard, carra and even torres backing owen's return to anfield...

Originally Posted by _AXL_

but the ultimate insult was not to sign a contract extension, forcing rafa to sell him on the cheap. did anyone here know owen was the only player in recent history for real madrid to ever make a profit on his transfer to newcastle??? that was how cheap he was. and to join manure on the pretence that he would get to play more football??? did he get that??? nope. if he really wanted more football, he should have gone to hull. i can guarantee he will get into the 1st team without trying, well, whenever he is fit. judas. i would say. and it is a big insult to any liverpool player to be compared to michael owen.

jose is not the only one...i doubt any other world class manager worth his salt like capello, hiddink etc wld consider going to anfield under such difficult circumstances...as for a smaller budget, like i told u before...jose won both the uefa cup and the CL wif porto and porto's budget is definitely smaller than the reds' budget...reds hv always been a bigger & more prestigious club compared to porto...

Originally Posted by _AXL_

jose mourinho??? he has already said he wont come unless the present owners are out and substantial funds are available before he comes to liverpool. damn, if that was the case, paul ince would have done the job as well. mourinho is never proven if he has to manage a smaller budget.

[rahl]

Originally Posted by shyboy252001

Hi again,

would like to comment a bit on Lucas.. there are reasons i think why lucas were played often.. and i think that reason is mainly because Liverpool doesnt have a better Central Mid to play! especially early in this season.. and not like bro AXL's theory of lowering the club's valuation..

Welcome to the Red storm bro, and you come in supporting Lucas (but not defending him blindly) - that takes courage and I commend you for that. Stick around longer and you will see people coming in just to post one thing - about Lucas - week in week out without fail, regardless of how he played, whether we won or not.

This is not a Liverpool supporters' forum anymore, but a bashing ring by the very people who call themselves fans, who think they are helping the club by bashing team, players and manager when they are 'walking through a storm'.

Originally Posted by _AXL_

thanks for your compliments. i just cannot stand seeing people just believe what those crappy journalists with hidden agendas write about liverpool.

precisely... a lot of people here read the traditional news and believe everything wholesale.

well, some are only proud when the reds are winning. YNWA.

Alamak, you come in and pick a fight heheh, and then are going to disappear for a few more months???

The Internet has made a mockery of YNWA bro, now everyone has access to all kinds of good and mostly bad journalism and everyone wants to have their say and piece of mind. There is a culture of headhunting and its no different here at Pool - if not Kuyt, then Lucas, if not Momo, then Rafa. I have seen worse players at our club who never get stick - remember Morientes, he was a massive letdown but never got a fraction of the shit that Lucas gets.

If only what you say about Barclays is true...why should they even want to get involved in a crisis club when no other investors want to come in?

[rahl]

Originally Posted by bochapsing

when rafa stick to lucas, people say he favour lucas... when rafa din play babel, people say he dun give him chance...
when rafa drop a player after a good performance, people say he no good in man management lar, destroy the player's confidence lar... but when rafa praise lucas after he put in a good performance, people say he is rafa's pet...

i guess none of the managers for top teams will read paper or internet... else they sure go mad..!!!

It's a game in crisis bro, who wants to be a manager now? Sacked without even a full season? Sacked after getting into CL or winning it?

Or who wants to be a referee? The kind of abuse they get.

The racism...

And let's not even get started on the crazy money which is going to blow up in everyone's faces some time soon. Those are the real crises of football - US - not Lucas, not as simple as that.

[omnia]

so what r u saying?...that rafa deliberately made the reds play mediocre average footie?...if that is really true he sld be shown the door immediately wif no compensation because he has acted in bad faith...i truly pity the season ticket holders if that is really true...

as for the reds value soaring...how is this possible if the reds want to successfully compete for top honours over the long term on a sustainable basis?...not only must the new owner settle the debts...he wld also hv to come up wif $$$ to invigorate and strengthen the squad, plus come up wif more $$$ to finance the new stadium...

Originally Posted by _AXL_

i didnt understand what rafa was doing until the latter stages of this season. his insistence to play lucas, well until the rumours of barclays coming in with a bid only did i see the light. no champs league, doesnt matter. liverpool wont need the champs league money. cos barclays has a reputation of buying at depressed prices and selling high, so i would expect liverpool's value to soar very, very soon.

rafa's teams hv also been generally pretty boring...in fact if not for rafa's kiasu kiasi attitude the reds wld hv probably won their 1st epl title last season...all those bloody draws wif average mediocre teams cost the reds the title...and this season rafa's tactics hv at times been bizarre and weird...as for shoestring budgets...it is all relative...in any event rafa has not bought all too wisely...he does not hv a v good eye to unearth enuff gems...unlike during liverpool's golden years wif the likes of geoff twentyman the reds' legendary chief scout...see Secret Diary of a Liverpool Scout...

Originally Posted by _AXL_

i believe in rafa, bcos of what he has done to liverpool. the first european cup was a bit of a fluke, granted, but he has done wonders to the team in general. with liverpool destroyed by souness and the liverpool team who looked to bore opponents to death under houllier, rafa has transformed the team to serious challengers, on a shoestring budget (if any) for the past 2 seasons, all the while playing quite a bit of spectacular football.

[omnia]

what i don't understand is why does rafa generally prefer to put aquilani on the bench and play lucas instead?...he pays 20m pounds for aquilani and does not seem to want to give aquilani a straight long consistent run in the team to properly settle in...

Originally Posted by sex crusader

I have not much issue with RB except on the issue with playing Lucas day in day out.How about our youngsters in the reserve squad?Don't tell me none of them is better than Lucas!

[sex crusader]

I guessed you have to ask the so called' expert'" and "true fans"" here for the answer. They seemed to be the sidekick of RB! They can"t even acknowledge the fact that Lucas is a big failure and still blindly support him.I presumed that if RB used a toilet cleaner to be CB and fail big time and they will still say RB is right!What a blind supporter!

[omnia]

u hv a pt...however compare jose's track record at chelsea to that of ranieri, grant and scolari wif roman as owner and u may realise jose's quality...also he has done a pretty good job in this season's CL as welll...

Originally Posted by bochapsing

he always has unlimted budget, either with cheski or inter... furthermore, after tat kelong scandal which hit juve and milan, there isn't much difficulty in winning serieA...

what kind of illogical argument is this?...might as well say the same thing abt fergie's golden british boys of the 90s...sheesh...porto is no match compared to the reds in all aspects...size, budgets and prestige...and yet jose was able to win the CL wif porto...note porto thereafter sold its top players to clubs like barca and chelsea for big $$$, it spotted & groomed those players into top players...in this day & age of worldwide scout networks, the likes of deco & carvalho cld hv been picked up when they were in the youth teams...somewhat like lyon wif essien, benzema juninho etc...however lyon hv yet to win the CL...

Originally Posted by bochapsing

people may argue tat he did well with porto.. porto is always the top team in portugal league, they were having most of the best players in portugal too..

so?...the issue is who had a larger budget?...jose @ porto or rafa @ liverpool?...

Originally Posted by bochapsing

he won the champion lge with porto? didn't rafa won it with us too?!!

not true...based on his success at porto

Originally Posted by bochapsing

i'm not say he is not a good manager, but he isn;t proven to excel with limited budget...

more like these managers did not hv the eye to spot top talent and unearth gems...and in this regard i also include rafa as generally i don't think he has bought too wisely...if he did the reds wld probably not be in such a dismal state this season...

Originally Posted by bochapsing

just recall tat was there any "world class player" was playing for us under souness or houllier? "diouf" or "cheyrou" or "collymore"? we were only able to attract at most "the best british players"... but with rafa, we see torres, macherano, reina, alonso.....

babel?...keane?(but this one was parry's fault although rafa to blame for not playing him enuff & not keeping him when torres was injured)...also the 5-10m pounds range is just as impt as it all adds up...

Originally Posted by bochapsing

people may argue tat rafa has spent 200mil pound (according to most media)... but he had to rebuild the whole team he inhertited from houllier... and the real big spending (more than 15 mil) are only torres, macherano, johnson and aquilani...

while reds hv a 20m pounds midfielder(aquilani) on the bench more often than not and a 12m pound striker(babel) who was for long periods of time on the bench as well...

Originally Posted by bochapsing

while man utd, chelsea & lastest man city, they can afford to have 20-30 mil back-up strikers (roque santa cruz, berbatov, anelka) sitting on the bench...!!!

[ProfessorOokami]

Originally Posted by sex crusader

I guessed you have to ask the so called' expert'" and "true fans"" here for the answer. They seemed to be the sidekick of RB! They can"t even acknowledge the fact that Lucas is a big failure and still blindly support him.I presumed that if RB used a toilet cleaner to be CB and fail big time and they will still say RB is right!What a blind supporter!

Well said, bro. Support blindly is not what a fan should do. If the player is weak and bad or whatever (like LUCAS) go ahead and criticize him, if that stubborn Spanish waiter still wants to deploy him, then he loses our admiration and support.

[omnia]

i agree that rafa has generally done well in europe save for this season(sorry but the europa league does not count in my book)...although i think he sld hv brought on Crouch much earlier in the 07' CL final as Milan appeared to be there for the taking on the day...however when it comes to the EPL i think rafa still does not get it...on the contrary i think rafa's teams generally also play on the counter attack...also this season apart fm the injuries i think most teams r quite familiar wif the gerrard/torres combo...and it looks like if these 2 do not fire than the reds r really short on goal supply...

Originally Posted by shyboy252001

if i remembered correctly, under GH, we are just another Premier League team, no real threat to other teams. U dont see teams packing 11 men behind the line to defend. Of course, that is also because GH liked to play counter attack like some bro pointed out. Look at Liverpool now under RB, fucking hell, we are a top team challenging CL every year!!! see how much other teams fear to be drawn against Liverpool, especially in Europe. Even in Premier League itself, many teams are adopting "let's aim a draw against Liverpool than to try win the game" attitude.

it is what it is...rafa eventually failed to get barry and had burnt his bridges wif alonso...but to be fair to rafa i don't think the loss of alonso on its own is the cause of the reds' problems this season particularly taking into account alonso's inconsistent form wif madrid this season...as for maxi...well to me the jury is still out....same goes for aquilani...give them the whole of next season and then we can judge...

Originally Posted by shyboy252001

True, this season had been a disappointment to many of us, with the selling of Alonso, playing of Lucas, buying of Aquilani. But if RB's plan were to work out last year, we would have gotten Barry to cover Alonso and not forced to sell him without proper replacement like earlier this season. Anyhow, why no one is talking on how he managed to get Maxi Rodriguez at such cheap deal?? True, he hasnt shone yet, but so far Maxi has been quite a steal, i'd say. We have been missing someone like him, willing to dribble pass opponents and deliver good passes.

chances r one thing...but u gotta to convert some of them...the problem is that save for torres the rest of the attack force r inconsistent when it comes to actually scoring goals...that is why the reds need another proven goal scorer striker to take some pressure off torres...and a good right winger to provide some creative magic to open up defending teams...

Originally Posted by shyboy252001

Anyway, people complained when RB withdraw Torres against Birmingham, but those who watched can see how the match turned after the substitution, we had lots more chances than before that. And we trashed Benfica (a strong European Team) after that! Fulham match was going to be challenging because they put 11 men behind.. it is always going to be difficult to fight teams defending like that..

pls lah the fact that reds will not be playing CL footie next season is a painful reminder enuff that the reds failed to get 4th place...not forgetting the loss of $$$ which is much needed...reds no longer being in the big 4 is yet another painful reminder...and let's face facts...who cares abt the europa league?...does it provide entry into the CL?...is there much $$$ to be made fm playing in this competition?...as for yr 05' analogy...it is incorrect because CL is totally different fm the europa league...moreover the reds were provided entry into the CL notwithstanding finishing 5th because they won the CL...big big differences...

Originally Posted by shyboy252001

Lastly, no one remember the 4th placing in the League, but everyone will remember that you won the Europa League (if we do)! so dont blame him for focusing on Europa League when he probably think its going to be difficult to secure the 4th position.. not that he totally give up on 4th also.. remember Liverpool won the CL in 2005, but was 5th on the League?? no one really remembered we were 5th, but everyone knows we won the CL!

i don't...i think rafa has had his chance...6 seasons is more than enuff...he has had his chance... think he has taken the reds as far as he can...better to get a new chap in wif fresh ideas...however the big management problem needs to be addressed first before things can start to get better...

anyways whatever happens between now and the end of the season i think rafa shall probably be heading to madrid(pelligrini is a dead man walking) next season...which wld suit the reds as instead of paying rafa compensation(which it can ill afford) it wld get compensation fm madrid instead...

Originally Posted by shyboy252001

Really hope RB will stay managing Liverpool long enough to create his legacy.. sometimes, i think todays' fans expect instant result, no less to courtesy of Chelsea.. but look at how long Ferguson needed to bolster Man Utd to become a strong team? 7 years? and he almost got fired, too in his early days, but somehow he was helped by the breakdown of Liverpool team in the 1990 with the sudden resignation of our Kenny Dalgish, and the rest is like they say, history.. and if u compared that to RB who is fighting against teams going stronger each year and still managed to bring a also-ran team to become a serious title challenger, that is an achievement!!

[omnia]

what is yr basis?...i generally don't see such hidden agendas...

Originally Posted by _AXL_

thanks for your compliments. i just cannot stand seeing people just believe what those crappy journalists with hidden agendas write about liverpool. mourinho somemore!!! dont people know how to read between lines about articles written by pro-manure scums???

expensive through buying or expensive through spotting and grooming?...big big difference...pls lah do u actually believe porto is a bigger club than liverpool and has more revenue wif a larger budget?....

as for chelsea...why weren't ranieri(his last season), grant and scolari as successful as jose...as for inter...well let's see if jose can pull it off in this season's CL...

Originally Posted by _AXL_

even at porto, his squad was very expensive!!! deco, carvallo, paolo ferreira, ricardo (i think), a young talented brazillian, etc... it was virtually the portuguese team at that time. got that kind of money to squander, who wouldnt be able to build a winning team??? well, besides real madrid... and chelsea and inter already had a strong team before he took over.

well if u look into the recent history of the academy u may realise that it was steve heighway who helped bring through the talents like fowler, owen, carra and gerrard ...rafa fell out wif heighway (over favouring foreign talent over local talent) and he has since quit...

let me also share wif everyone some interesting info courtesy of phil thompson's biography...see Stand Up Pinocchio...in it thompson says that liverpool were offered Cristiano Ronaldo just before manure went for him...and at a price below 10m pounds...but Houllier was too slow to react as he had no idea who the hell Cristiano was at that time...poor scouting...the rest as they say is history...

Originally Posted by _AXL_

there were some players who were worldclass during souness and houllier's time... david james was virtually unbeatable on days when he wasnt on his nintendo, jamie redknapp was sublime, GOD is my favourite No.9 of all time but houllier sold him!!! if u can see, most of them came from the academy. it is time to strengthen the academy again. i heard from my evertonian friend that jack rodwell was actually a liverpool fan in his childhood!!! what the hell is he doing in everton colours??? he is actually the one with the most potential to take over gerrard!!!

yeah right...in any event if it is really true rafa sld be shown the door asap wifout any compensation...it is not for rafa to play such politics at the expense of upsetting the squad...if he is not happy then just quit lah...the ownership issue was in any event reaching the brink because the yanks had to come up wif 100m pounds by july regardless...no need for rafa to play such stupid games if what u claim is really true...

Originally Posted by _AXL_

for lucas, bros here, give him a break. rafa used him to lower liverpool's valuation so that serious buyers can come in without breaking the bank. the 2 american idiots were asking for 500 mil for 40% share initially. the bloody cheek!!! they were angling for a fast one all along. as for lucas, he was never ready. for an athlete to build his bulk (since last season), he was never gonna gain speed at the same time. he is still not ready to be playing week in, week out. he still needs 1 or 2 seasons to get used to his new body, build on his speed and his vision. right now, he is just a liability and he knows it. he is only interested in not making mistakes by doing a lot of backpasses and jump for the sake of jumping.

jury still out on maxi...same wif aquilani...

Originally Posted by _AXL_

maxi has been unlucky recently :- hit the post on a couple of occasions, blocked shot by own teammate, ball meant for him to score a certain goal robbed by own teammate, etc. but maxi is a breath of fresh air and can clearly see that he is potent in attack. but some people would say that he is not scoring, so not value for money even though he cost liverpool 1.5 mil. he must score his world cup screamers week in, week out.

[omnia]

early part of the season perhaps...but why when aquilani had recovered fm his injury rafa still insisted on starting wif lucas more often than not?...

Originally Posted by shyboy252001

Hi again,

would like to comment a bit on Lucas.. there are reasons i think why lucas were played often.. and i think that reason is mainly because Liverpool doesnt have a better Central Mid to play! especially early in this season.. and not like bro AXL's theory of lowering the club's valuation..

Let's turn the clock back and look at earlier part of the seasons.. Early this season, after Alonso left us, we were looking for CM to replace and that certain Barry went back against his words on wanting to play for Champ League club.. RB went for Aquilani, not sure right or wrong move, time will tell.. that left us in CM position Gerrard (injured most of the time), Alonso (left), Mascherano (exhausted and mentally not stable due to Barcelona courtship..), Aquilani (injured), Lucas (average Joe), Plessis (errr...), and this small short guy from Academy.. so... lets see.. if we play 4-4-2.. who u pick to partner Mascherano?? i'd say Lucas was more like a no-choice option for RB.. and now nearer to the end of Season, u saw Lucas benched more often..

sorry but if a player is consistently not performing and appears average and mediocre than he deserves to be criticised...cmi means cmi...let the lad go and move on to someone else...both ngog and lucas hv been given their chances and i think both just cmi in a red shirt...better off trying 2 new faces...for strikers i rather give pacheco a run...

Originally Posted by shyboy252001

anyway, if u are a Liverpool fan, please dont keep on flaming that poor Lucas, he is a young chap who came from across the continent to learn the trade, but somehow due to circumstances, he got to shoulder such a big responsibility in playing for a top club's CM role.. come on lar.. imagine urself in his shoe, man.. i think i'll break under pressure and disappear in the background if i were him.. but he had the mental toughness to stand up and did his best throughout the season and helped the team.. not a wonderful job, but he had done his part.. please show him some support, ok? same goes for poor N'gog..

[omnia]

don't hv a clue?...now who guaranteed reds fans that liverpool wld clinch 4th spot a couple of mths back only to suddenly volte face and do a u turn when his tactics back fired???....

Originally Posted by hawksbay

wonderful post bro axl,like rafa said this so called fans DON T HAVE A CLUE.U R RITE ABT THAT MANURE FAGGOT ,THAT SPANISH WAITER SOUNDS VERI FAMILIAR.