Events In CP

[fastspawn]

Bro Tony,

Yes you're right, CP (or rather DG) is still economical compared to the other KTVs in China.
However, CP has always been the case whereby it's a budget territory - i.e. mass market. Other KTVs we tend to go if it's on company expense or business transaction so we don't care. In CP we stay for days just specifically to go to KTV everyday not the same with other cities AFAIK.

In fact, now the gal prices are on par with Shenzhen - last time I checked it's 5-15-20 or 25 IIRC. The gals are slightly older (23-26) and so much more experienced - which makes them less sa jiao and much better companions.

I mean if really CP economics don't make sense for the KTV owners to continue at the prices previously held, in the end we have to accept it; but accepting it means the other KTVs in Zhuhai and Shenzhen start to make more sense to go since the price is about the same and the gal quality is better.

In fact, maybe Shanghai with a sitting fee of 600-800 but gals of really really good quality (like model) is a possibility - just the KTV fees are more expensive.

The business owners (saunas and KTV) need to ask themselves whether their pricing strategy has driven away consumers from CP, and do some business analysis to see whether there are better pricing strategies, imo.

This also affects your own livelihood as an agent, but I'm sure you're aware. I am guessing you have the real heartbeat on the ground since you're an agent.

[Lookingaround2]

Originally Posted by fastspawn

The problem lies not just in the price - it lies in the price-quality ratio of HMTL. Just some thoughts on the matter, I was in HMTL in May so things might have changed

So as you were saying.... it not the dollars and cent that matter but the value for money that matter?

If that the case, how do you put a value on thing such as personal preferance, looking and etc...

True case... just the other day... a friend of my choose the worse looking model in my whole company and both me and another friend could not believe it... to make matter more unbelievable, he decide to bring her back despite he have with him a much better looking gal.... he say he like that kind...

so if you see someone that you like, is the 2k price tag too much to pay... of coz 1.2k price tag will be better... but as you say.. it not about the money...

if a gal is not your type don't say 1.2k, even 800 is not value for money.

don't get me wrong... i'm not defending HMTL (even though i work there) most bros here know that i don't blindly follow company...

But i'm say is that the price of HMTL is high in dollars and cent sense..

Maybe just to add something... we know the price is high... but as a company, it is a very dangerous move to make to lower price... we got to consider what happen if we drop price and gals left to other higher price place... when we got no gals left.. you think customers will still come?

Originally Posted by fastspawn

My friend just told me HMTL blackout again 2 days - yesterday today. Last time I go also blackout. How come they don't have contigency plan like generator and the like?

Think you better get your fact right... yesterday and today who say got blackout? some of the brother are here yesterday, no blackout.

Originally Posted by TonyCheong

==============
EURASIA (OU YA) KTV
==============
Hostess Category: 3•8•12 / 4•10•15 / 5•15•20 / 6•16•22

I remember Ouya got 700 and 800 cats... wrong?

[robird]

Sad to said the price increase rapidly is all due to competition.
Last time only got one big KTV - 桃园。

With more KTV opening, what is the best way to attract MMs?
Money come first.
Hmmmmm...... welfare........ KTV sucks the MMs earning including locker, entrance fees, maintenance fees, uniform, fines........so what the gal can think is only $$$.

As long as there are more and more competition, prices will keep going up.
Of course, I do not know when the bubble will burst or will it burst.

I think we cannot compare SG and CP as it a different ball game.
In SG, we dun expect too much as it is long term. Have a drink and go back home. Or sometime ST. CP we expect more than that.

I cannot think of any better way to attract more MMs.
Even some KTV waive off the entrance fee for new poor MMs. After the MM become 老油条, she will still jump to other KTV that offer higher return.

So too bad, we will just have to expect the price increase or abandon the place. This will only change if the bubble really burst.

[stridersg]

Originally Posted by fastspawn

Unfortunately bro, that's comparing apples and oranges - we compare CP expenditure against CP expenditure in the past timeline. That is the Rate of Inflation of CP compared with the national inflation of China.

If you were to compare SG with CP you will find a lot of problems with that comparison
1. Why do SGP go to CP instead of stay in SG and KTV, one of the reasons of course is expense - if you want to equalize it might as well stay at home cheong. (of course got other reasons but I reckon expense is one reason)

2. SGP is a more expensive city than CP - some things same price like Starbucks and Macdonalds, but all in all, no SGP hotel is $60 bucks a night.

3. Unless you millionaire you don't go cheonging everynight in SGP, at most once a week or once a month so expenses are less. In CP if not cheong what you do? Sit hotel pcc? So the KTV are better business, and by economies of scale the owners have a better business potential than KTV owners in SGP. After all if a KTV room is unoccupied that's wasted space.

So the question is over the last few months has the rate of inflation of CP KTV been higher than reasonable for the national average?

[edit] read the second part of your para - and realized that you said this is only relevant to those that have only cheong before in SGP and not CP. In that I guess that makes sense, but seriously, I think that pull of cheongers who go SGP KTV but never go before CP KTV and wanna go CP KTV is shrinking already. Everyone heard of CP before.

You also have to put into account that the GDP and average income of China and Singapore. Like in SZ min average income of normal worker is 1500RMB, these personnel if want to cheong ,how many months muz they save?

Alot of samsters are complaining becoz places are jacking up prices and hoping to lure more MM to their joint. Seriously, if there are joints that are okay and prices are relatively better, why go for higher joints.

In SG, back then i usually cheong places like MG, Katong, TH these type of places and bottom down and average spending of SGD50 to 100 per pax. Gers can get SGD50 per piece although they butterfuly. Can negotiate with gers and also depending on your chemistry with the ger, can get 300 to 500 overnite.

Bottom down no matter where you are, there are ways to cheong.

[fastspawn]

Originally Posted by Lookingaround2

So as you were saying.... it not the dollars and cent that matter but the value for money that matter?

If that the case, how do you put a value on thing such as personal preferance, looking and etc...

I know it's hard to put a dollar value to personal preference, so last time Ouya Yihao make it quite simple, if above a certain height you get to choose to be 4-8-13 or 5-15-20.

Perhaps you can reveal how HTML makes that choice now? Is it still height?

I know height is a pretty silly metric, and I am sure there is better ways to decide. For example, maybe all gals start off at 3-7-10 or 3-8-12 whatever price range. If they can sit 15 days in a month they can get promoted to 4-10-16 if they choose. If at 4-10-16 they can sit 15 days a month they can get promoted to 5-15-20 if they choose.

In the sense as a KTV you don't have to judge for the markets taste, but let the market be the judge for yourself. It's not a new method, I think a lot of DJs get promoted for booking rooms in the same manner

But my point is that the gals who were previously 3-7-10 (like in January) are 4-10-16 in HMTL. That's a 25% increase in 4 months. She wasn't tall, and really pretty but I mean at the end of the day how do HMTL make their pricing decisions?

Originally Posted by Lookingaround2

don't get me wrong... i'm not defending HMTL (even though i work there) most bros here know that i don't blindly follow company...

Well as an employee of HMTL you do have every right to defend HMTL and I won't be offended if you do in a polite way.

Maybe just to add something... we know the price is high... but as a company, it is a very dangerous move to make to lower price... we got to consider what happen if we drop price and gals left to other higher price place... when we got no gals left.. you think customers will still come?

When initially HMTL went on the offense with their price war they wanted to attract the best quality gals. I am sorry, but when I went in May, I didn't seem to think it was working well. In response to your price war, Ouya and YH raised prices somewhat, though still less than HMTL.

As a gal, they also want to work where its convenient and familiar. If you stay in Ouya Chun, will you be enticed to move to HMTL area to work? If you take cab its 20-25 RMB...

Now bros are blaming HMTL for this price increase of YH and OY, so YH and OY are happy because they make their place more expensive without offending bros, but the new kid on the block generate some bad will.

Lowering prices unfortunately as you said is a dangerous precedent - you lose your gals who move back, and I agree with you there.

Pricing is always the last thing you should be fighting on because it leads to a war of attrition and is very offensive.

Let me suggest to you HMTL strength and weaknesses and what I hypothetically think can be a business strategy.

HMTL Strength -
1. You have one of the nicest and newest KTV FOR NOW
2. I have to admit your Assistants Mummy are GORGEOUS! I have never seen AMs as gorgeous gathered in a single place; perhaps you can tell us your secret
3. You are located in HMTL, which currently has a block rack rate discount and I think full house because of that.

Weaknesses -
1. New Business, seems to have inexperienced management (as explained in my previous forum post about my impression) Don't conduct your management meetings and gal meetings during F Street. I don't know who made the decision to do so, but having a guy yell at full blast while I'm shopping at F street is really irritating. This guy isn't too blame if he isn't in charge, but really is there no one with class and taste?
2. Your gals are not the correct prices yet. Perhaps this is personal taste, but you should do qualitative survey of your customers to figure it out. I am telling you what I feel so it's one opinion. What I am saying is that for your prices, I can either find gals of better quality in other places, or same quality but cheaper in other places.
3. Small Lobby, Not as inviting. Frankly speaking, it seems to me HMTL owners had an idea of making the most expensive and grandest KTV in CP, but skimped out on getting a large location. Decor is good, but size of the KTV matters. Look how big DiHao in Dalang is. Yihao, Ouya and even FuHao seem bigger by at least twice. (I realize in the end the rooms are what's important)

Some strategies not involving price
1. Poach the really good mummies with talent acquisition from other KTVs - in KTV it's all about the talent. Gals go where they respect the mummies, and follow them if they are sisters.

2. Gain a reputation for offering real stuff in CP. Something that irritates me the hell of out of CP is that everything is fake. If you guys are new, perhaps you can think of ways to solidify a real stuff reputation?

3. Don't go advertising the 15% discount, I found that a bit ridiculous. You mean if I book through you you won't automatically give me 10-15% discount like every other KTV in CP? You maybe get a couple of newbies come in, but truthfully, I haven't had an instance whereby I book ahead of time and the booking manager never give me at least 10% off. Of course if you are offering 15% off on top of the usual 10% that's a different matter altogether

4. KTV for a large part in CP is a commodity market. The commodity is girls and you can tell from the fellow posters. If you want to go into service industry where you can really upsell experience that might be good. 2 things you can do, customer management and service ethics. Your strength really right now is that I would go to HMTL for your asst. mummies, but I know they are asst. mummies and I not some young kid or rich folk can go play them, but that being said if you can use them well i think can build a loyal base of customers. Service ethics is not just from gals, but also from the DJ, from the waiters, all must learn how to flatter and cajole the customers. Just think how you would like to be served in KTV and then think of things you can do.

Think you better get your fact right... yesterday and today who say got blackout? some of the brother are here yesterday, no blackout.

Its a friend who told me, so I apologise if I'm wrong. During my stay there was a blackout and no backup plan.

I remember Ouya got 700 and 800 cats... wrong?

Not that I recall. Only place got 800 category in my memory was Di Hao.

[draken]

Originally Posted by stridersg

To be serious, gers also know what they want. Some girls refused to go up in grade as it will affect her income and customers brining them out. The tips partially have to be paid to the mummy so if only sitting fees, they seriously cannot afford their mid to high expenses. For me, i have my own standard also, overnite charges of 2K, 2.5K, 3K.. no matter if you call them "Model" to me not worth it. if i pay 2K, i can get 2 gers for double fly. The so call "Model" only certain percentage is very or extremely good looking. They are cat in to "Model" becoz of height, relationship with management. These so call "Model" also have more attitude issues and problems than normal cat gers. For HTML, the purposes of so much high priced gers is because they want to have more gers to come over to their place but they forgot than in competition, quantity is not that important as quality. For drinks, mostly there will be discount, for gers, if there are more nice normal grade gers and mid level gers you will make you place. but of coz in China, i believe HTML is targeting clients who are rich and famous or rich and powerful.

Agreed ... when i walk along the models alley, they are also showing super dao face i.e. OY .. some even shun their face away and avoid eye contact (hahaha guess im too ugly for them)... its not really abt the 2k price tag.. for me good attitude is most impt.. we are there to spend money to buy happiness not anger ...

Btw the so called models also not chio lah... just slightly taller with super high heels... hahaha

Originally Posted by Vertu

Ya not all girls wanted to increase their price tag too .....

Many gals know that even they are tag at 1100 / 1200 for over nite , customer will usually give them 1-200 more , still come back to almost the same as 1400/1500 ....and best part is if their price tag at lower and with above average looking , their chances of choosen are higher too .

Agree bro.. most of my buddies prefer to choose more lower price tag gals then choose who to bring back

hahaha im trying not to spoilt market.. although i try my best not to give tips except for the so called taxi fare ..occationally I will still give abit more if i get one with super good attitude...

Originally Posted by fastspawn

Unfortunately bro, that's comparing apples and oranges - we compare CP expenditure against CP expenditure in the past timeline. That is the Rate of Inflation of CP compared with the national inflation of China.

If you were to compare SG with CP you will find a lot of problems with that comparison
1. Why do SGP go to CP instead of stay in SG and KTV, one of the reasons of course is expense - if you want to equalize it might as well stay at home cheong. (of course got other reasons but I reckon expense is one reason)
.

hahhaha bro ... for me .. its the posh KTV setups , huge quantity of gals and excellent sn services that keeps draawing me back planning this Oct or Dec...

[stridersg]

Originally Posted by fastspawn

Bro Tony,

Yes you're right, CP (or rather DG) is still economical compared to the other KTVs in China.
However, CP has always been the case whereby it's a budget territory - i.e. mass market. Other KTVs we tend to go if it's on company expense or business transaction so we don't care. In CP we stay for days just specifically to go to KTV everyday not the same with other cities AFAIK.

In fact, now the gal prices are on par with Shenzhen - last time I checked it's 5-15-20 or 25 IIRC. The gals are slightly older (23-26) and so much more experienced - which makes them less sa jiao and much better companions.

I mean if really CP economics don't make sense for the KTV owners to continue at the prices previously held, in the end we have to accept it; but accepting it means the other KTVs in Zhuhai and Shenzhen start to make more sense to go since the price is about the same and the gal quality is better.

In fact, maybe Shanghai with a sitting fee of 600-800 but gals of really really good quality (like model) is a possibility - just the KTV fees are more expensive.

The business owners (saunas and KTV) need to ask themselves whether their pricing strategy has driven away consumers from CP, and do some business analysis to see whether there are better pricing strategies, imo.

This also affects your own livelihood as an agent, but I'm sure you're aware. I am guessing you have the real heartbeat on the ground since you're an agent.

Bro, there are quite a variety of places in SZ with gers at 369, 3710. I have been to quite a number of places with bros and the last one i went with a bro bill chrges at 1Kplus for 3+ 2dozen free. Plus manager provide 1 n half dozen and tons of snacks also DJ came up with another 6 cans.

[stridersg]

don't get me wrong... i'm not defending HMTL (even though i work there) most bros here know that i don't blindly follow company...

But i'm say is that the price of HMTL is high in dollars and cent sense..

Maybe just to add something... we know the price is high... but as a company, it is a very dangerous move to make to lower price... we got to consider what happen if we drop price and gals left to other higher price place... when we got no gals left.. you think customers will still come?
QUOTE]

Yes! What HMTL is doing now is only your aim to get more gers to come to your place. From the opening till now there have been numerous complains. I do not care what ppl say as only encounter liao then i can believe but with too many complains can only half belive half doubt. For your prices, it will be definately crazy. Anyway this maybe your marketing stradegy so i will restmy case. Unless i have too much money to spend and got nothing to do and just want t show off like most idiots in China known as "Fu Er Dai" , "Guan Er Dai", i wll choose the most reasonabe and appropriate way to cheong.

[stridersg]

Originally Posted by draken

Agreed ... when i walk along the models alley, they are also showing super dao face i.e. OY .. some even shun their face away and avoid eye contact (hahaha guess im too ugly for them)... its not really abt the 2k price tag.. for me good attitude is most impt.. we are there to spend money to buy happiness not anger ...

Btw the so called models also not chio lah... just slightly taller with super high heels... hahaha



Agree bro.. most of my buddies prefer to choose more lower price tag gals then choose who to bring back

They call or class models just because of their Heights and some places becoz they want to lure more gers in. Gers can get table sitting or not i think is not there concern. Anyway maybe going CP tonite and tmorrow nite... any bros there want to meet?

[zipzap69]

Originally Posted by TonyCheong

Since you refer to China's domestic market comparision.

The only nationality that are very consistent patrons to Changping are the Taiwanese.
Rain or shine they come in droves.
Hong Kongers only come on Fri-Sat and lesser frequency as no longer value for money.
Malaysians/Singaporeans usually choose to come during their respective public holidays.

Actually, forex rate also affect my decision.. RMB has strengthened against many other currencies in the last 3-5 years..

[zipzap69]

Originally Posted by robird

Sad to said the price increase rapidly is all due to competition.
Last time only got one big KTV - 桃园。

With more KTV opening, what is the best way to attract MMs?
Money come first.
Hmmmmm...... welfare........ KTV sucks the MMs earning including locker, entrance fees, maintenance fees, uniform, fines........so what the gal can think is only $$$.

As long as there are more and more competition, prices will keep going up.
Of course, I do not know when the bubble will burst or will it burst.

I think we cannot compare SG and CP as it a different ball game.
In SG, we dun expect too much as it is long term. Have a drink and go back home. Or sometime ST. CP we expect more than that.

I cannot think of any better way to attract more MMs.
Even some KTV waive off the entrance fee for new poor MMs. After the MM become 老油条, she will still jump to other KTV that offer higher return.

So too bad, we will just have to expect the price increase or abandon the place. This will only change if the bubble really burst.

Bro.. I thought competition is supposed to keep prices down??.. or have I misunderstood basic economics.. CP kind of high prices are sustainable only if the ktv environment/service package is there to support it. Otherwise it is not justifiable..

[zipzap69]

Originally Posted by fastspawn

Let me suggest to you HMTL strength and weaknesses and what I hypothetically think can be a business strategy.

HMTL Strength -
1. You have one of the nicest and newest KTV FOR NOW
2. I have to admit your Assistants Mummy are GORGEOUS! I have never seen AMs as gorgeous gathered in a single place; perhaps you can tell us your secret
3. You are located in HMTL, which currently has a block rack rate discount and I think full house because of that.

Weaknesses -
1. New Business, seems to have inexperienced management (as explained in my previous forum post about my impression) Don't conduct your management meetings and gal meetings during F Street. I don't know who made the decision to do so, but having a guy yell at full blast while I'm shopping at F street is really irritating....

2. Your gals are not the correct prices yet. Perhaps this is personal taste, but you should do qualitative survey of your customers to figure it out. I am telling you what I feel so it's one opinion. What I am saying is that for your prices, I can either find gals of better quality in other places...,

3. Small Lobby, Not as inviting. Frankly speaking, it seems to me HMTL owners had an idea of making the most expensive and grandest KTV in CP, but skimped out on getting a large location. Decor is good, but size of the KTV matters. Look how big DiHao in Dalang is. Yihao, Ouya and even FuHao seem bigger by at least twice....

Some strategies not involving price
1. Poach the really good mummies with talent acquisition from other KTVs - in KTV it's all about the talent. Gals go where they respect the mummies, and follow them if they are sisters.

2. Gain a reputation for offering real stuff in CP. Something that irritates me the hell of out of CP is that everything is fake. If you guys are new, perhaps you can think of ways to solidify a real stuff reputation?

3. Don't go advertising the 15% discount, I found that a bit ridiculous. You mean if I book through you you won't automatically give me 10-15% discount like every other KTV in CP?....

4. KTV for a large part in CP is a commodity market. The commodity is girls and you can tell from the fellow posters. If you want to go into service industry where you can really upsell experience that might be good. 2 things you can do, customer management and service ethics. Your strength really right now is that I would go to HMTL for your asst. mummies, but I know they are asst. mummies and I not some young kid or rich folk can go play them, but that being said if you can use them well i think can build a loyal base of customers. Service ethics is not just from gals, but also from the DJ, from the waiters, all must learn how to flatter and cajole the customers....

wow!!.. for this excellent marketing swat analysis alone, HMTL should give you a month's worth of free ktv-room use + beer thrown in..

I normally charge my clients big $$$ for this kind of advice!!

[Cerberus]

Originally Posted by draken

Agreed ... when i walk along the models alley, they are also showing super dao face i.e. OY .. some even shun their face away and avoid eye contact (hahaha guess im too ugly for them)... its not really abt the 2k price tag.. for me good attitude is most impt.. we are there to spend money to buy happiness not anger ...

Btw the so called models also not chio lah... just slightly taller with super high heels... hahaha

Agree bro.. most of my buddies prefer to choose more lower price tag gals then choose who to bring back

I don't choose gals who give me those "dun give a sh*t" look. i mean i can get that everyday in sg. Sg sluts who thinks they are a class above the rest.
sorry....go china ktv is to experience something diff.

yup.....good attitude.....on the bed....

sometimes i also look at those lesser average gals who got those "dun think they will get picked" look....then give a shot.....if their face lit up...hosei liao.
coz they will give their very best since seldom get picked.

or...those newbies who got that village shy shy look.....they are not dao....just very shy to look at you. can consider.

no point bring back a super chio model...then like dead fish or this cannot that cannot.

[SamiHyypia]

Just my 2 cents worth of the current debate on prices, I think its not solely because of the prices there and we go over to CP for changing. We missed out on a very impt point which is the amount of girls there. As compared to changing in the local SG scene, choices are pretty much limited.

Of course when we cheong in CP, usually its 3-5 days period, we can really let our hair down and cheong. No worries of drink/drive, unnecessary calls or whatsoever. Its just Drink,Sing,Bonk.

Do agree that prices for models nowadays are simply not worth it. The amount of premium that we pay is just for taller bodies and most of the time, we can find lower cat MMs that are much prettier and much better attitude and service.

[Cerberus]

Originally Posted by SamiHyypia

Just my 2 cents worth of the current debate on prices, I think its not solely because of the prices there and we go over to CP for changing. We missed out on a very impt point which is the amount of girls there. As compared to changing in the local SG scene, choices are pretty much limited.

Of course when we cheong in CP, usually its 3-5 days period, we can really let our hair down and cheong. No worries of drink/drive, unnecessary calls or whatsoever. Its just Drink,Sing,Bonk.

Do agree that prices for models nowadays are simply not worth it. The amount of premium that we pay is just for taller bodies and most of the time, we can find lower cat MMs that are much prettier and much better attitude and service.

China is improving leaps n bounds every year.
There is no way we can reverse the trend.

Just enjoy while we can.

As consumers, we always have a choice. Too expensive then dun cheong KTV.
Can always cheong other areas.
Liquors too expensive.....order lesser or change to beers.

You have the choice.