Police Taking Action On TN Centers In HDB

[apache]

Originally Posted by max_priest

Yeah, he doesn't need this extra revenue as his monthly remuneration package as a DPM is much more than a middle management executive of 5-8 years experience earns a year. Awesome rite? Thats why a lot of foreigners (including alot of Singaporeans) cannot understand and/or accept as to why the salary of the ministers has to be pegged to the top 5% income earners of the country ...

well, the excuse is by having a very high pay, it will match to them to outside corporate pay as a CEO. something like making up to their opportunity cost. Also, another excuse is that this will minimise corruption.

You know, being a MP or Minister today is no longer all about serving the nation, but it is like employing the "better" candidate to fill the top post. This is Singapore Inc. If we pay the salary scale like the American, I can bet half the cabinet will go back to the corporate world, and we will see who truly wants to serve the nation.

Somehow, by having such high pay, the long term problem is eliticism.

It is actually like a ticking time bomb waiting to explode. And what our MM has taken years to build will somehow one day go down the drain.

Anyway, this debate has been defused long ago.

Now is how to help and support these pdmm in their livelihood in an unforgiving sillypore.

BTW, the murder TN site actually located at DPM or PM's GRC?

[stiffness]

Originally Posted by apache

I wonder did the govt screen the financial capability of the Chinese students before letting them in. ...

Clamping down on TN is not a solution. What is the root cause? Clamp down is just a wayang, for show only, to appease some that action is taken. But the problem still persists.

Solution will be to be stringent on giving social passes (but here we are being afraid of spoiling Singapore and China relations), stringent screening of Chinese students' family income before letting them study here.

Apache, well done and well argued. What the gahment did, in one fell swoop, as usual, is to LUMP all PDMMs as sex workers. Considering that there's a good population of PDMMs who work legitimately in massage joints, without offering special services, this new regulation has pushed them out of a job, or have made it very hard for them to earn an honest living. They talk about multi-ethnic society and all that, but this regulation is as anti-ethnic/anti-racist since it targets, very specifically, Chinese mothers. Oh, but I'm sorry, the 30000 odd PDMMs who are here in Singapore are not citizens and therefore can be excluded because of their race, language and religion.

Consider these facts then:-

1. Most neighbourhood schools have had to accept more kids from China to bulk up their classrooms, given the decreasing population growth. The gahment is targetting specifically China for recruitment of primary-secondary students into Singapore. Some will go into JCs, most into polys, and most will leave for western countries (inc Australia, USA etc) to get a degree. They WILL remember how Sillypore treated them and their mothers and when they become important players in China...
2. There IS no financial checks on their ability to sustain themselves, unlike USA or UK which requires incoming students to sign a financial guarantee form. On the other hand, there are agencies in China that promises PDMMs and families that they can easily find lucrative jobs in Singapore to help sustain them.
3. These new regulations are not the only ones recently targetting PDMMs. In 2003, regulations prevent them from working in the first year they are in Singapore, the gahment will be stringent in giving them permits for jobs in 'shady' industries like massage, reflexology, hostessing. It means, increasingly, some of the PDMMs who were successful people in China (managers, executives etc) end up in jobs that locals won't want - coffee shops, cleaning places etc low end jobs.
4. The clean joints are now going to have to be certified by people who know the least about massage therapies - Health ministry and Singapore Physiotherapy Association. Most PDMM therapists are on-the-job trained, but will probably require some crazy certification. I smell a new industry booming in Singapore which will 'train' these PDMMs and then 'certify' them to work in massage places. Like some diploma in massage therapy like they have in the USA/UK.
5. Even if they are certified, how many clients will want to go to joints which are open-concept?? And viewable by the public outside? Even proper reflexology places like Kohong have massage beds sequestered for privacy. I can imagine tons of samsters now waiting outside the Thomson area where Diana Ser goes for massage In my years of experience having proper massage in the West, I have never been inside an open concept one because it's against the idea that massage is supposed to be calming, relaxing and private.

But you're right that the gahment never thinks ahead and just reacts to public opinion, which is typical of them. They just need to be seen doing something. And you're right that people are creative enough that they will figure out loopholes or alternative means to provide special services - supply and demand will always be there. Not HCs but physical and counselling therapy centres? How about HDB flats being used privately for massages? Or more using Hotel 81 as base of operations? Or they'll all move to Potong Pasir or Hougang :P

Some smart guy will figure out the way and everyone else will follow. PDMMs here are not financially stable and they will always need the income, whether from proper or special services. You chase them out, you're moving a hot industry (foreign students) out to other countries, and leaving schools half empty.

[owen10]

Originally Posted by SexFreak

Bro Apache, I fully agreed with your points .......... those kids who went back China will always remember how our government and critics treated their mother here ...................... juz need some of them to be the higher official when grown up, it's Pay-Back-Time !!!

ok lah let's not get too personal abt d political part. i dun thk those kids will hate us so much n take revenge la. too much hk serials bro.

[striker42]

Hi here is the link for the full text of the changes on TN. they have 2 mth that is till Aug to make the changes......

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...215436/1/.html

Am going to miss having a good massage plus a good tme.... but guess somehow those PDMM will find another way out.....so let's be patient and let this whole issue cool off first........

[apache]

Originally Posted by owen10

ok lah let's not get too personal abt d political part. i dun thk those kids will hate us so much n take revenge la. too much hk serials bro.

well, there will always be some form of negative impact. I don't know the exact figure of the Chinese students here, but if it is really at a strength of 30,000 or more and all pull out to go back to China, (all parts of China, I would say), then word of mouth will spread and there will be no doubt a negative impact. When these students go back, they are ahead of their peers and likely to excel in their studies and might become future leader. This will hurt Singapore-China relations in both short term and long term.

Don;t forget, China is big enough to be an economy on its own. Only some gahment will say they need to open up and cooperate with other nations etc, just because we need them more. Go to China a few times and you will know what I meant. They got oil, they got plentiful of food supply, they have booming industries, they have raw materials, they have human talents, they have a relatively stable govt..... give them another 10 years and you will see China being a world power. hmmmm, this means we sillyporeans still have 10 years to fletch our tiny muscles a bit in front of the Chinese, before we get "hum thum" by their big muscles.

Let me say this, the pdmm has no financial resource to continue their children education here. They also do not want to live like beggars here.

OK, let's say gahment want to provide subsidy of $500 per student, then that will be S$180million per year! Is $500 enough? Probably just to cover room rental and the child's food.

We are in a way depriving them of an education here, due mainly to lack of support and also due to their financial status.

I have met pdmm who used to be accountants and managers in China, but their qualification will not get them the same jobs here. They also cannot get the same pay which they can get when they were in China.

The same theory will also apply for us. We may not get a job if let's say, our sillypore women become pdmm and go to China. The Chinese will unlikely employ us sillypore graduates at Singapore price!

What the government should do instead is to clamp down on these so called agencies which brought the pdmm and students into Singapore. These agencies earn the most.

On a deeper thought, having a certifying body will also mean that gahment suddenly have a huge flow of income. It is impossible to have NTUC massage parlour. And right, the certifying body may not have the expertise to certify too. They may just call a meeting, ask for tender or "expert" opinion, and come up with some criteria or check list. everybody also want a share of the profits.

Though a small amount, it is substantial:

500TN x 365days per year x $90 (per job of massage and special) x 8 average customers per shop per day (very low estimate) = S$131.4million

This is my minimum estimate. It can be as high as S$300million per year.

One can imagine how much tax is not received.

OK lah, let us help the gahment and also help ourselves.

Get the WDA to put all pdmm into their training scheme, get them certified and get back to business (though it is true that all masseaue have their own techniques as they come from different school). Waive the 40yr old age limit for subsidy for these pdmm. Nevermind if gahment earn the certifying money, just get the pdmm back to business.

In fact, the WDA training scheme, I was skeptical. It is like forcing everyone to learn one style of Qi Gong, when there are so many types. Hey, we are not doing O' or A' level here with model answers leh.

I also wonder whose brilliant idea it was in the gahment to have open concept TN. What the shit lah. Why not we shit with the door open, a la China style?

I am not used to having people walk past and see me naked with pants.

How about the ladies? Wow, good idea somehow. Got free show liao when we go to unisex TN and see naked ladies covered by small towers on the bed being massaged. I think I will do foot reflex, and enjoy the show from the chair.

GAhment, AV, and other agencies, POlice may score points with their recent press statements. But I think they should not make such hasty decisions (decision made within a few days without proper research and studies, probably based on findings by someone who has to submit his report). It has a serious domino effect. Don't set solutions for one problem and create problems in other areas that affect other agencies and ministries.

Better discuss with the Manpower Ministry, Foreign Ministry and Education Ministry first. Or did they?

Anyway, just what our gossipping aunties will say, "Not my business lor". They are the gahment and they should solve their problems themselves.

One also will not know what the pdmm will do when desperate. when dogs are desperate, they jump the wall. If in financial distress, will the pdmm stage demonstration in front of home affairs, a show of disapproval? Geez, having a 20,000 people (both chinese pdmm and chinese workers in support) demonstration. Half of our police force? Not as if the dragon workers have not done such things in smaller scale before in front of MOM.

The media should be careful what they report from now. Any words that hurt the pride of the Dragons should be censored, which I all the while tot they are good in censorship. having statements hinting on "chicken" etc should not even be shown in the media at all.

Silllypore gahment should be thankful that they are not running HK.

Hai...
Think back few weeks before this new rules start. Murder & hararess the passerby,all over the papers.Is all their faults spoiling their own rice bowl. Can't they be more discreet?or their greed run over them,never think of the long run.

Why dun you see often sillypore bookies being caught?And there are plenty out there,especially this season.These people racking in millions.Aren't they afraid being caught,worry that they legs run off,worry that their business suffer heavy loss.OF COS THEY DO.But they practise discreet.

These TN openly jio people during their wives with them,w/o assessing the current situations.OMG.

One day after passing by 1 TN, my wife openly asked me did i ever go patronised b4. Silly question.how to answer!!!!!!No wonder police have to act accordingly.Sillypore can be a exciting place if everyone practise more discreet.

IS WE, PEOPLE!! WHO ALWAYS SPOIL THE MARKET!!!!!!

So sambians,please do our part too.During "war time" hold your words.dun spoil our market by telling tis fr to the "emeny.You might un-intentionally spoil the market rate . Somewher, someone is trying to hold the line.

[ninja turtle]

"Licensed ones can operate in private rooms and their employees may now be asked to undergo medical health screenings such as tests for sexually transmitted diseases."

There are still lic one loh. So dun worry. Although so be not 500+.

[fullboost2bar]

Why are all the bros here getting so uptight

look at the bright side, with all the TN joints gone this will lead to more MILF in geylang which in turn will push prices down when supply is more than demand

[Optimus_Prime]

Guys... guys....

For sure this seem like a DEEP IMPACT... but...


it is just a BIG ROCK thrown into a stream....
yeah it makes a BIG SPLASH when it lands...
causing ripples everywhere...
but further up the stream,
do u even see any after-effects from the BIG ROCK landing ?


Ponder this and u will know why some bro said this is jus a knee-jerk reaction and someone enterprising will find a way around it.

[taumajid2003]

everything is going to snowball from the new ruling on TN...believe me...so far we bros have been providing some sort of livelihood to the business and also incomes to the PDMM

[brando4848]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime

Ponder this and u will know why some bro said this is jus a knee-jerk reaction and someone enterprising will find a way around it.

As long as those guys thinks with his head and not his manhood sure can find ways to counter the new measures Hope to see a new era of TN in ... places though.

[jordi]

Bro Apache, your points and arguments are spot on ! I agree entirely. I feel your anger and frustration and the way gahmen do things ...

Consider the following :-

1. Person in charge of this sudden TN clamp down is same person who was in charge of james gomez saga.... Will MR BROWN soon come up with another "ter kua" podcast ? (I am eagerly awaiting it)

2. PDMMs were allowed in cos we wanted the "smart" PRC children to come and "replace" our population ... so how can u cut their income off jus like that ? Many of brudders here who know PDMMs will know the majority earn a living here by wat they do ... and they work hard for it ! Some of them even have better "after-sales" service than our locals .. Maybe gahmen can use the PDMMs at the upcoming IMF/World Bank conference and see how good they can be ....

3. Finally, its jus sway the murder happen in AMK .... cos it is the capital of Singapore. (Our "capital" used to be in Marine Parade and was moved in Aug 2004) Something has to be done so this is the wayang .... joo chiat is happening everyday and everynite .. no such wayang still ..

So .. Wats going to happen next ? This stuff will continue but in a new form ... someplace ... somewhere ... at a place near you ! Akan Datang !

[owen10]

Originally Posted by striker42

Hi here is the link for the full text of the changes on TN. they have 2 mth that is till Aug to make the changes......

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...215436/1/.html

Am going to miss having a good massage plus a good tme.... but guess somehow those PDMM will find another way out.....so let's be patient and let this whole issue cool off first........

comforting to hear that at least still got 2 more mths to play .. i thk i'll try to visit one today. kekeke ...

[R-K-O]

Originally Posted by owen10

comforting to hear that at least still got 2 more mths to play .. i thk i'll try to visit one today. kekeke ...

ya lor, will call up my "playground" these few days or maybe pay a visist to them. After all the TN gals make no harm to us, jus wanna earn a living. We shd br grateful to them with all the sweet memories they brought to us right?

R-K-O

[xocturnal]

Most of us would not be surprise of this outcome as more of such joints starts to appear in HDB estate. This murder case is just a catalyst for its' early demise. As a TN regular, I am also sad especially when I was just thinking of visiting a new one that opens just a week ago near my place. However do not fret, as I am sure that those in this business should be abe to come up with creative ideas to satisfy our cravings. Lets allow the dust to settle first before we see how things work out.