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#4531
08-10-2007, 12:04 PM
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Re: Liverpool Fc Anfield - Reds Supporters Gatherings
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#4532
08-10-2007, 12:29 PM
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Re: Liverpool Fc Anfield - Reds Supporters Gatherings
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#4533
08-10-2007, 12:39 PM
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Re: Liverpool Fc Anfield - Reds Supporters Gatherings
A disappointing match and even more disappointing result. Seems that everytime we take one step forward, we take two steps back.
AGree with the rotation policy thing, its not working, but we have not enough players, we have to sacrifice a competition. We cannot do well in Europe AND EPL,which is what Rafa is trying to do. Whereas EPL is the desired title, Europe is where next years transfer kitty comes from. But i do not think its just that. I think all the players know they have a shot at the title, a honest and realistic shot, and they are just getting cold feet as they are not used to the position. The team just lacks the confidence to challenge! They will improve AFTER we lose more points that people write us off.. this is the scenario time and time again 
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PRC always make us think we are special, the moment we believe them is when we are the one getting fcked  Brother of Realm, Tiko#41 U. N. R. E. T. I. R. E. D.
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#4534
08-10-2007, 01:23 PM
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Re: Liverpool Fc Anfield - Reds Supporters Gatherings
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dun worry. The rotation thing will bear fruit in the second half of the season cos most of the BPL players will more or less suffer from burnout and hopefully we're still in the hunt for title by then
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Got come got go, if u upz me for a reason or nope, i gurantee to return it. next Ups list(not in sequence):Waiting for someone(WHAT U WAITING FOR???)
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#4536
08-10-2007, 04:43 PM
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Re: Liverpool Fc Anfield - Reds Supporters Gatherings
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In that sense, our onus has always been & is still not to concede goals ... that has been the traditional LFC way, even during the championship winning days under Shankly & Paisley. At this point in time, I'll still stand by Rafa ... on 2 counts: 1) Pako Ayesteran ... I feel Rafa let him go becoz he was not willing to get re-accustomed to Rafa's requirements - look, he's been with Rafa since Valencia days & he's certain his methods need not be changed ... but this is the English season, not the Spanish one, where there are less matches to be played & cup competitions are deemed "dispensable" most of the times. In other words, I'm suggesting that the conditioning works done in the past seasons are deemed ill-timed ... 'coz the players peaked before the season became critical. Didn't anyone of you noticed that the last 10 matches in each of the last 2-3 seasons manifested the players' tired legs & all? I'm also suggesting that Rafa is doing it his way now ... to ensure the players get into their rhythm just around Christmas & last till the end of the season. I thought his theory was rather simple to fathom ... not unlike training an athlete in the very different discipline of 400m, 3000m & 10000m. At this stage of the season, all teams had their own rigorous pre-season programs to ensure the difference between teams will not be too obvious - how else do we explain Sunderland scoring 2 goals at the Emirates? However, in the 2nd half of the season, most teams will be suffering from tired legs (plus injuries & suspensions ... which is where our bigger squad of internationals will come in handy) while Rafa's boys are supposed to be able to run faster, jump higher & fight harder. Trust me, there will be less tinkering, come the 2nd half of the season ... just hafta see how he stuck with Arbeloa (when Aurelio was a non-option, plus Babel was given time to get used to the pace) to understand this. 2) Rotation Policy ... there is nothing wrong with this system, simply becoz where the BPL is concerned, we're still lying in 4th position with a game in hand - in another perspective, only the Gunners are way ahead (if 6 points at this stage can be considered that) & similarly with a game in hand. IF we get the 3 points via the game in hand, we'd have been 3rd in the table, breathing down the Scums' back with no more than 1-point difference. I think, compared to the many recent seasons, this is still one of the better starts (if not the best, but will leave it to rahl to manage the stats) ... a truth we cannot just ignore, a position many other BPL managers would love to be in (Jol, most definitely). Following the coming 2 weeks of international action, it means we will have a rested Carra & a fit-again Agger ... plus time for Rafa to get the understanding, the movements & the set-pieces right again on the training ground. Lastly, those who came out in the open to criticise the rotation policy ... has any one of them managed a Big-4 club in the BPL in recent years?? So, do they really know what they are talking about? Which of the Big-4 managers do not tinker with his team? However, when Ferguson got it wrong while rotating his entire team for the Carling Cup ... he didn't get slogged like Rafa, the foreigner?? Wonder why ... Come on, give the man a fair chance ... judge him at the end of the season, not now when less than 15 competitive matches have been played by the team in a potentially 60-match season. YNWA ... remember?? 
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#4537
08-10-2007, 05:09 PM
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Re: Liverpool Fc Anfield - Reds Supporters Gatherings
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You should know your 'rotation' point while in your reply to me is not aimed at me heheh. I agree completely with you. I have no problem with so called rotation as I have said before. I am still waiting for the advocates to 'prove' that it's the cause of our ills.  I think, although I am deeply disppointed with our recent results, this rough patch is good for us because it will really show what we are made of and how ready we are to challenge for the title this season. We had a great start to the season but it's when the going gets tough that the tough gets going (or not).
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#4538
08-10-2007, 05:43 PM
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Re: Liverpool Fc Anfield - Reds Supporters Gatherings
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For weeks, there's been nothing in this thread but noise parroted from the press ... until you came along with some knowledgeable talk & triggered my outpour. Quote:
IMHO, the key moment that changed the profile of last night's game was Voronin's decision to overdo things ... when even a player like Gerrard was caught offguard with that lay-off, you know it was totally unnecessary & a simple shot off Voronin's right foot would have been the simpler but better option. Had we been 2-0 up, the game would have been over & done with ... but it wasn't to be. Yet, mere minutes from either side of half-time, Hyypia was outjumped by Berbatov (who was giving him hell, for the record) & both times, Berbatov's knock-off found Keane in acres of space. Though there was still a good 40 minutes to "fight back", you could see doubts surfacing on the faces of Voronin, Pennant & even Gerrard: "why like that?", "not again?", etc. In comparison, Spurs had much more at stake ... so, on the day, you could also see their players fighting that much harder. Having considered all that, to be able to score that last-minute equaliser to grab something out of this game, I personally think it's a BIG deal ... although at the start, I also had my money on a comfortable turn-the-corner 3-0 win for the Reds. PS: Although I acknowledge & respect Hyypia as a very loyal servant to the LFC cause, I seriously think & hope Rafa would be able to sign a good centre-half as back-up. His reluctance to play Hobbs in the Carling Cup showed that he still has certain reservations about the boy, at least for this season.
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Walk on through the wind, Walk on through the rain, Tho' your dreams be tossed & blown. Walk on, walk on with hope in your heart, You'll never walk alone, You'll never, ever walk alone.
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#4539
08-10-2007, 08:43 PM
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Re: Liverpool Fc Anfield - Reds Supporters Gatherings
Another thing that we need to look at is that there are basically 3 kinds of managers...
Those that can uncover talent, aka Wenger's uncanny ability to transform players Those that have the support to buy them, aka Mourinho and Fergie Those that hope to get lucky. I think Rafa is not as good as Wenger in this and would need to go with the money route and pay for a good centre back. Also, maybe a good player to cover for Finnan and give him some food for thought as some of his play is atrocious.
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PRC always make us think we are special, the moment we believe them is when we are the one getting fcked Brother of Realm, Tiko#41 U. N. R. E. T. I. R. E. D. Last edited by KLKOOL; 08-10-2007 at 08:56 PM.
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#4540
08-10-2007, 11:38 PM
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Re: Liverpool Fc Anfield - Reds Supporters Gatherings
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But, if you are making that remark in general, then perhaps you should consider how many years Wenger or even Ferguson needed before the kids became men?? As far as I can remember, a certain Theo Walcott still remains untransformed ... no?? As for our own Hobbs, he's a young boy (all of 19 years & a little more) who's been the captain of the reserve team for the last 2 seasons ... trust me, he's another Carragher in the making - Rafa is just choosing the right moment to unleash him. But, for now ... yes, we need to buy another established centre-back. Quote:
Consider this ... 1) Finnan's competitor for the right-back position is supposed to be Arbeloa 2) For the left-back position, it was supposed to between Aurelio & Riise 3) For the left-mid position, it was supposed to be between Babel & Kewell However, Kewell is still out while Babel hasn't really found his footing in the BPL yet ... so, Riise or even Pennant has to be roped in to fill out the left-mid position satisfactorily ... which leaves Arbeloa to help fill out the left-back position, in place of Riise (redeployed) or Aurelio (out with injury until recently) ... so, it appeared to you that there was no cover for Finnan??
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Walk on through the wind, Walk on through the rain, Tho' your dreams be tossed & blown. Walk on, walk on with hope in your heart, You'll never walk alone, You'll never, ever walk alone. Last edited by KingEros; 08-10-2007 at 11:55 PM.
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#4541
09-10-2007, 12:03 AM
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Re: Liverpool Fc Anfield - Reds Supporters Gatherings
SEARCHING FOR AN 'OLYMPIACOS MOMENT'
Paul Tomkins 08 October 2007 Slumps. Sticky patches. Call them what you will, but I've written about a few of them in the past three years. As ever, the Reds will emerge from this one. Between January and March 2006 the Reds couldn't buy a goal. Then five flowed against Fulham, as Robbie Fowler broke his duck, and the team never looked back. Confidence is everything in football; without it good teams can easily look like bad ones. One-nil up, and playing well, Liverpool had chances to get to that comfort zone with a second goal against Spurs. It didn't happen, and then goals conceded at two of the worst times –– immediately before and after half-time –– did to the Reds what it does to any team low on confidence: it killed them in their tracks. The confidence that began to flow from being 1-0 up was not as powerful as the kind of 'concrete' confidence a team feels when it is regularly winning games. It is far more fragile, like pumice. It took the shellshocked players a while to find some belief again, but by the end they'd earned a deserved draw. It wasn't classic Liverpool, but it was a big improvement on last Wednesday's showing. Last week, after the Marseilles game, I commented on my own website that Liverpool needed something, from somewhere –– I called it an 'Olympiakos moment'. The kind of goal, or result, that changes a team's fortunes and instils belief. Sunday's opposition had just had theirs, a few days earlier. And what a difference it made to them. Spurs are now a team starting, somewhat belatedly, to look like a top-five side. Until a week ago, they were closer to relegation fodder, with a squad that cost pretty much the same as Liverpool's. Spurs were a minute from a famous win at Anfield. This is the same Spurs who were losing 4-1 at home on Monday night, 30 minutes away from total meltdown. Against Villa they got back into the game with a goal, but in truth were going nowhere –– before being gifted a penalty by a Marlon Harewood's clumsy 'forward's challenge. Suddenly they were a goal away from a 4-4 draw. They achieved it with an injury-time equaliser, which probably felt like a winning goal. Spurs, so talented a team but having such an utterly abject season, suddenly had their Olympiacos moment. They arrived at Anfield buoyed. If Liverpool aren't winning enough games right now, at least Torres' goal showed a desire not to lose them. Drawing too many matches can be a problem in itself, so being unbeaten in the league doesn't paint the rosy picture it otherwise might; but it's still something to cling to, in terms of regaining confidence. It's something to build upon. But obviously in most sections of the media the problem is being put down to one thing. Much to my chagrin, rotation has become an absolute obsession. I can't recall any other issue relating to the Reds' play causing so much controversy. It is overshadowing everything, clouding the main issue –– namely that confidence has drained away. Without confidence, it almost doesn't matter who's in the team. When teams lose confidence, every player seems to suffer. There are probably a number of reasons for it happening, and it's ultimately the manager's job to find some way of reversing it –– although there are no magic cures, as Spurs are finding with the previously reliable Paul Robinson. In the case of some Liverpool players, perhaps rotation may have had an adverse affect. It's certainly a possibility. But why are some of the usually reliable regulars playing below their high standards, and some of those being most heavily rotated, such as Andrei Voronin, doing extremely well? The more the debate rages, the more I see a truth: namely, that rotation is only an issue when Liverpool aren't winning. And that, for me, is what makes a lot of the debate a mockery. Like all ideas in football, rotation isn't 100% perfect, and it does seem that with a bigger squad Benítez is making even more changes than in the past. But I'm sick to death of it being blamed for everything in a massively simplistic manner. As well as rotating, there have been lots of changes forced by injury, and that needs to be taken into account. I just find it impossible to categorically blame rotation because there's absolutely no way to prove it. When I look at Benítez's team selections in recent weeks, as results have faltered, I actually see evidence that suggests rotation isn't the problem is being made out to be. Take the defence, who are now making mistakes. Is that down to rotation? Well, the defence were regularly keeping clean sheets when Benítez was rotating the back four, and alternating between centre-backs. Of late, he hasn't altered his central pairing because of Daniel Agger's absence with a broken foot. And Arbeloa and Finnan, who played against Spurs, are his two main choices at full-back (although Aurelio, back from long-term injury, was missing because of another injury). So, despite more consistent selections at the back, the defending hasn't been as good. Against Spurs, the central defenders were at fault on both goals, and yet no-one can tell me these two don't have a finely-developed understanding after playing together in the same back line for almost a decade, as well as having been the regular partnership at the heart of the defence between 2004 and 2006. So it's not like rotation early in the season was denying them a chance to build up understanding and consistency. Is rotation to blame for Steve Finnan also not being at his best? After all, he's started ten of the 12 games. This supremely consistent full-back has had a very patchy start to the season by his standards. Perhaps, like Carragher, he was due a blip. But again, in such a well-drilled and, in recent years, almost telepathic unit with Carragher and Hyypia, the defending has suddenly gone awry. And I don't see how rotation can be blamed. Further forward, Steven Gerrard has been deployed only in the centre of midfield, where everyone said last season that he simply had to play. He hasn't been switched around, in the manner that is supposed to disrupt his game, and he's now starting pretty much every match he's fit for. But like Carragher with his damaged ribs and lung in August, Gerrard's form has dipped since injury. You could argue that Gerrard's mix of midfield partners hasn't helped him form a consistent partnership, but it's not like he's been paired with anyone new to the club whose game he doesn't understand. Xabi Alonso's absence is being felt, but Gerrard is capable of so much more than his current form –– he is capable of looking world-class even if I was lumbering around alongside him. His body language tells us he knows he's not in the best form. But whatever the reason, I don't see much evidence to suggest it's down to rotation. He was much better in the first half against Spurs, but once the team went behind his confidence seemed to drain and his influence waned. It's the same when it comes to the strikers, with Benítez castigated for constantly rotating his his four forwards. Don't get me wrong –– I do think it can be hard at times for individual strikers to find their rhythm when being rotated. But if they are playing one of Liverpool's (usual) two games a week, then they should be able to give their all in the knowledge they need to keep nothing in reserve. But what I don't get –– if rotation is so bad for them –– is how the four strikers have 15 goals between them in all competitions already this season. By contrast, Tevez, Rooney and Saha have just six, while Chelsea's forwards have seven. Liverpool's four strikers have scored the same as free-scoring Arsenal's three forwards. There's always a controversy about which two strikers Benítez omits, but he can't play them all, and on the whole he has got a lot from whichever two who have played. Andrei Voronin has four goals, but has been far from a regular. And are players who stay in any side all season long automatically immune from losing their form? Of course not. While being on the bench or omitted from the 16 can affect confidence, it's better than being totally frozen out as two first-choice strikers play every single game. With Benítez, performing well doesn't guarantee you'll play the next game, but it does mean you'll play again soon. Only playing poorly will limit your chances, but even then, you're still in the frame. I believe that on some level, all fans resent rotation, and it's perfectly natural. We do not know where we stand in the way we do if there's a set, defined starting XI. So it takes a bit more patience to bear with what is, by its very definition, a more complex way of working. I just loathe seeing it blamed again and again, given that all teams have difficult patches and lose confidence. Make no mistake –– it's not been a good week. But the Reds are still 4th with a game in hand on the Manchester clubs, and unbeaten in the league. That may be of little comfort to some, but it's a reality that tells us the situation is far from critical. Of course, a return to winning ways needs to come about sooner rather than later before a gap opens up. In total contrast to the previous one, I think the international break has come at the right time. It gives the coaching staff a chance to take stock and analyse what's going wrong ahead of a return to league action. A win at Everton would provide just the kind of confidence boost that can lead to a revival. Liverpool's superb form on the way to the 2001 Treble was kick-started by another 'Olympiacos moment' –– Gary McAllister's 93rd-minute winning goal at Goodison. On such things seasons can turn.
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Walk on through the wind, Walk on through the rain, Tho' your dreams be tossed & blown. Walk on, walk on with hope in your heart, You'll never walk alone, You'll never, ever walk alone.
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#4542
09-10-2007, 09:28 AM
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Re: Liverpool Fc Anfield - Reds Supporters Gatherings
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I'd like to see us get on with it and keep passing and going forward. If we can get that mental toughness, we will sure be title challengers.
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#4543
09-10-2007, 11:57 AM
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Re: Liverpool Fc Anfield - Reds Supporters Gatherings
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Firstly, Wenger and Fergie are different. Wenger buys young players and grooms them. Where was Van Persie, Henry, Viera etc, before Arsenal ? few are direct from the academy. Fergie inherits his from the academy. But except for his Golden Generation, which only Giggs and Scholes are of, the rest are deemed his B Team. The rest of his First Team is bought. Theo Walcott... I suspect there must be some hidden agenda. Till today i dun understand what the fuss is about. As for Hobbs. He is a bonus. But we need someone today. If you want success, there is a price to pay. A good centre back is something we have to pay, now. As for Finnan, well, he is a robust player and hardworking. But he is also not getting any younger. Maybe its his distractions or insecurity of the centre backs, but just feel his performance is not up to par this season so far. Whatever it is, I feel that he need a backup.
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PRC always make us think we are special, the moment we believe them is when we are the one getting fcked Brother of Realm, Tiko#41 U. N. R. E. T. I. R. E. D.
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#4544
09-10-2007, 12:06 PM
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Re: Liverpool Fc Anfield - Reds Supporters Gatherings
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Firstly, Wenger and Fergie are different. Wenger buys young players and grooms them. Where was Van Persie, Henry, Viera etc, before Arsenal ? few are direct from the academy. Fergie inherits his from the academy. But except for his Golden Generation, which only Giggs and Scholes are of, the rest are deemed his B Team. The rest of his First Team is bought. Theo Walcott... I suspect there must be some hidden agenda. Till today i dun understand what the fuss is about. As for Hobbs. He is a bonus. But we need someone today. If you want success, there is a price to pay. A good centre back is something we have to pay, now. As for Finnan, well, he is a robust player and hardworking. But he is also not getting any younger. Maybe its his distractions or insecurity of the centre backs, but just feel his performance is not up to par this season so far. Whatever it is, I feel that he need a backup.
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PRC always make us think we are special, the moment we believe them is when we are the one getting fcked Brother of Realm, Tiko#41 U. N. R. E. T. I. R. E. D.
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#4545
09-10-2007, 11:21 PM
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Re: Liverpool Fc Anfield - Reds Supporters Gatherings
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Exactly bro... Mental toughness and spirit are what our team needs (and the final step, IMHO) before they can truly declare themselves as title challengers...And I'm still hopeful!!
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