Issue with ICA

[razer123]

Hi, my fiance is of Thai-Chinese descent and her family runs a few restaurants in Thailand and they are also in the real estate business.

She came to Singapore once back in 2009 before I knew her with her parents and sibilings for a holiday and subsequently, this year again on 2013 May for 2 weeks with her family as well and that was when my parents and me met their family while we were dining at MBS and had a bit of chat while waiting for queue outside a restaurant. *talk about yuan fen!*

To cut to the chase, she went back to Bangkok and we maintained great contact over 2 months and my family invited her family to stay at our place during July.

However, her parents were occupied thus she came here alone. She stayed for a month until the 3rd of August and I went back with her to Bangkok for about a month plus and we came back together to Singapore on the 17th of September.

She stayed at my place and nearing the end of her 30days validity, I tried applying an e-extension for her which got rejected. That was when I started looking online for similar cases and was advised to do a visa run. As such, we made a trip to Malaysia where we stayed at Puteri harbor traders hotel and visited Legoland the second day before coming back to Singapore. The journey back to Singapore was smooth sailing and she had another chop for 30 days.

On the 12th of November, it was her 30th day in Singapore and as such we booked a flight back to Bangkok together and I came back to Singapore on the 18th of November this week on Monday after Loy Krathong.

At the same time, during her stay in Singapore, we decided to file for a first notice of marriageas both our parents are agreeable to it and that she's from a good upper class family with a strong set of values and most importantly, we clicked really well owing to her great command of English. In short, I am lucky to have met her in the wildest way possible.


I'll be going to Bangkok to meet her on the 6th of December and we're planning to come back to Singapore on the 12th of January next year in preparation for my birthday as well as the ROM which is on the 3rd of February.

From what I've read in the previous threads, I know that the ICA works on a 180day cycle and you're given 90 days in each 180 day cycle and seeing that her first entry into Singapore was on 3rd of May 2013, she has well cleared her 180day cycle and as such if she were to come into Singapore with me on the 12th of January, it would mean that she's clear of the 180 day bracket and on top of that, she has effectively stayed out of Singapore for more than 60 days.

To top it off, we have our ROM application form with us. So will there be any hiccups or possibilities of a U-turn at the airport still?

Also, immediately after the ROM, we plan to apply for a LTVP but I've also read that for jobless people, it would be hard to get it. Is that true?

My girlfriend is a UNI grad and has working experience at CITIBANK before she left to join her family business while I'm clearing my final year in UNI cause I stayed back 2 years and right now I'm quite paranoid after reading so many cases of unsuccessful entry into Singapore as well as failed application for LTVP.

So it'll be great if someone here can shed some light on this matter.

Are the ICA obliged to allow entry to anyone who has successfully filed for a ROM?
I am 100000% sure that my fiance has a clean record both in Singapore and in Thailand because she has only been here once before meeting me and that was with her parents and they stayed at the Fullerton hotel so I'm guessing for someone with that amount of monetary capability surely does not have to resort to alternative ways of making money illegally.

That said, I don't see anything wrong with her so I just want to know if its possible for her to still be rejected entry into Singapore as from what I've gathered, ICA can be quite a pain sometimes...

[Hurricane88]

Originally Posted by razer123

Are the ICA obliged to allow entry to anyone who has successfully filed for a ROM?
I am 100000% sure that my fiance has a clean record both in Singapore and in Thailand because she has only been here once before meeting me and that was with her parents and they stayed at the Fullerton hotel so I'm guessing for someone with that amount of monetary capability surely does not have to resort to alternative ways of making money illegally.

That said, I don't see anything wrong with her so I just want to know if its possible for her to still be rejected entry into Singapore as from what I've gathered, ICA can be quite a pain sometimes...

congrats...just fly in and try...nobody can tell what happen...dun think anything will happen since you so confident she is clean...btw, ICA has no obligation to anyone...

[razer123]

Thanks for the prompt reply.

There is a problem though, I read on ICA's website that for the application of LTVP, the spouse must be working. If I'm still studying, is there anyway to get by this rule?

[Hurricane88]

Originally Posted by razer123

There is a problem though, I read on ICA's website that for the application of LTVP, the spouse must be working. If I'm still studying, is there anyway to get by this rule?

ask your parents to deposit half a mil to your bank account and/or show ICA your land title deeds with your name on it...

alternatively, ask your future spouse to invest 5mil in singapore by depositing SGD 5mil into any local bank account...and then setup a biz to employ at least 10 local citizens...sure she will get her PR and then citizen 2 years later...

option 3 - wait till you graduate and worked for 3 years with CPF contributions monthly then you apply...

the above is just my personal opinion and advice base on your case...

[razer123]

Hai, I guess its really hard to stay in SG nowadays even after you're married.

We are from an ok family so 5 million is out of the question so is half a million. That's what only the elites can afford. I guess no choice but to wait.

[Soul_Reaper]

Originally Posted by razer123

Hai, I guess its really hard to stay in SG nowadays even after you're married.

We are from an ok family so 5 million is out of the question so is half a million. That's what only the elites can afford. I guess no choice but to wait.

Your case should be easy lah..... since her family has a chain of restaurants in Thailand..... just get them to set up a branch of the restaurant chain in SG and put her as the CEO in charge...... 99% confirmed she will get her ICA approval.

[Hurricane88]

Originally Posted by Soul_Reaper

Your case should be easy lah..... since her family has a chain of restaurants in Thailand..... just get them to set up a branch of the restaurant chain in SG and put her as the CEO in charge...... 99% confirmed she will get her ICA approval.

exactly since he said she comes from rich family...

[etsys]

Originally Posted by razer123

Hai, I guess its really hard to stay in SG nowadays even after you're married.

We are from an ok family so 5 million is out of the question so is half a million. That's what only the elites can afford. I guess no choice but to wait.

you are missing the point somewhere .. "THE ELITES" .. don't bother to get any residency in SG .. they have many options .. just saying so

The main reason why ICA became tough .. well, you can't blame them .. before election, any foreigner marrying local - almost guarantee residency/LTVP/PR ..

Heck, even PR was not so much tied to spouse, so many marry, and then conveniently dump the spouse. Come last election too many complained of too many foreigners, so .. count yourself as one of the collateral damage, when ICA has been ordered to prune the numbers.

Alas, since you are not employed, all will work against you .. for now.

btw, even other countries have similiar policies. Like even Malaysia, if the Malaysian Spouse of not employed,. getting any form of PR is next to impossible.

Unlike in western nations, where you can have marriages of conveniences, SG has tightened pretty much ..

[naemlo]

Originally Posted by razer123

That said, I don't see anything wrong with her so I just want to know if its possible for her to still be rejected entry into Singapore as from what I've gathered, ICA can be quite a pain sometimes...

I did not read your long story but I can say, ICA uses a set of guide lines or common sense.

SG is a small city, no one in this world needs more than 30 days to tour SG. ICA does not have the resources to do a back ground check on a particular person. In general, most ppl need to work or even a big boss with tons of money won't spend 100s days in SG touring. If someone enters as tourist, spending almost half a yr in SG, this is fishy.... you can't blame ICA.

[etsys]

Originally Posted by naemlo

I did not read your long story but I can say, ICA uses a set of guide lines or common sense.

SG is a small city, no one in this world needs more than 30 days to tour SG. ICA does not have the resources to do a back ground check on a particular person. In general, most ppl need to work or even a big boss with tons of money won't spend 100s days in SG touring. If someone enters as tourist, spending almost half a yr in SG, this is fishy.... you can't blame ICA.

actually, a lot of tourists get 7 days or 14 days .. unless they ask for 30 days .. and more than once i heard ICA staff telling "what will you tour here for more than 7 days ?? "

And what you said is correct, ICA can't bother to check each and every tourists capability to spend .. saving .. proof of finance (heck, even Credit cards could mean - no spending balance .. why should ICA call and ask the CC company ?? ) ..

There are some rich guys who spend a lot of time here, which ICA wouldn't bother, as the rest of the time their passport show travel to US, UK, Australia .. even those guys prefer to get some Long Term pass, in case they have to spend more time here ..

[razer123]

Thanks for the comments. Would really up you guys if I had the points.

So asides from the legal aspects and stuff, are there any benefits in terms of ease of entry/lower rejection rate/easier extension of stay if you're married legally in Singapore?

e.g. If my wife is officially married to me with proper documentations done in Singapore and she's also a University graduate, will she be allowed to come into Singapore as many times as she wants? Does it also mean that she will be excluded from the "180 days 90 days total stay" rule? Or can ICA still turn her back if she visits me too often?


I did some research on my own and found out that the reason why ICA uses the 180 day bracket is in fact practiced by most countries as there is some ruling that states that if you were to stay for more than 180 days in a country, you will be eligible for some sort of residency status? Do correct me if I'm not wrong because I read it online so the source isn't exactly credible.




Btw,to the person who upped my points, thanks a lot. I have no idea how to check it but thanks again.

[naemlo]

Originally Posted by razer123

Does it also mean that she will be excluded from the "180 days 90 days total stay" rule? Or can ICA still turn her back if she visits me too often?

There is no absolute answer, it all depends on the official. To save all your trouble and questions, once u got married, get a proper visa for your wife.

Originally Posted by razer123

if you were to stay for more than 180 days in a country, you will be eligible for some sort of residency status?

U are not joking right? Which country u read, gives residency status after 180 days? Guess u have misread the info... In some countries, if u stay for about 180 days, this varies among countries, u are considered Tax Residency. You have to pay income tax

[shysaint]

Originally Posted by razer123

So it'll be great if someone here can shed some light on this matter.

My usual recommendations ....

you don't try ... You never know the end results ...

Since you have the intention to get married or you may already have been married ... Just go ahead and try ... Who knows ... Rules being rules, regulations being regulations, there are always exceptions ...

quote u an example ... Regulations stated that for ltvp+, you need to have a SC child n married for 3 years ... I have a friend who just married for less than 3 mths and his wife is only 1 mth pregnant, his wife has gotten a 3 yr ltvp+ with his 1st application.

My recommendations, dun need to think so much, just go apply, from there u will see where u stand ... Cone back here and update us and share ur journey.

Good luck.

[etsys]

Originally Posted by razer123

I did some research on my own and found out that the reason why ICA uses the 180 day bracket is in fact practiced by most countries as there is some ruling that states that if you were to stay for more than 180 days in a country, you will be eligible for some sort of residency status? Do correct me if I'm not wrong because I read it online so the source isn't exactly credible.

The 180 day rule applies to Citizens of US/Australia/UK for tax exemption purposes .. nothing more ..

US/UK/Aus passport get 90 day upon arrival, and they can extend for another 90 day = 180 days.. not for other passport holders..

Originally Posted by razer123

Btw,to the person who upped my points, thanks a lot. I have no idea how to check it but thanks again.

I upped you, but you need to ask and gain "POWER" to return .. once you cross 40 points or so .. then you can up others .. do ask around

shysaint is right sort of .. : you can always go and ask ICA .. and apply and see ..

[razer123]

@shysaint: Yeah, definitely. I did quite a bit of research last night regarding LTVP and LTVP+ and it seems that there are quite a fair number of rejected cases and there was a quote by a particular MP that the LTVP+ was actually introduced to help foreign spouses of lower income family and to ease the pressure off the family as the spouse is now allowed to work locally. And apparently it benefits local employers as well since hiring someone with a LTVP+ will not take up their foreign worker quota or something like that.

And at the same time I've also found an article in which ICA replied to a couple who appealed for the LTVP and were successful albeit her husband being jobless and the reason for the grant was based on compassionate grounds.

I think it really is a case by case basis.

Rules are set as guidelines for the masses but we are after all humans and sometimes, in this bureaucratic nation, it is still possible to find that glimmer of hope for exceptional cases or leniency.

I'll definitely go to apply and keep you guys updated so as to aid other bros here who might face similar problems. The more case study we have here, the more informative this thread will be.

@etsys: Oh, now I get it. I brushed through it briefly and didn't get the gist of it. Btw, thanks for upping my points, I'll do you a favor when I have the power to return it. I also checked out where to click and how to check my points. Thanks.